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Dave

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PostSubject: Today's Christian music   Fri Jul 06, 2007 11:21 pm

Things have changed since we first hit the stage.
Back then people weren't even sure you could do metal and be a true believer.
Today people say things in their lyrics that make you wonder and yet they get the benefit of the doubt.
What do you think?
Is today's "Christian music" really Christian?
And what does that mean anyway?
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James B.

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:51 am

It isn't what you put into the body the defiles but what comes out

from the words of a really kewl dude "now I don't mean to judge"

but yet I often do and call it something else (quite convenient) I see alot of things that touch my heart, make me smile, wonder ?, laugh. point a finger, and totaly trip. Another can see the same thing and experience it ina different aspect altogether. My personal opinion is that I don't know what christian music is or isn't. All I can say is that we are accountable for all we do and say and that can be heartbreaking for those actually involved in the action and more often than not, the ones observing.

my.02 1/2 cents worth geek
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Sat Jul 07, 2007 6:02 pm

Good point, and why I asked the question really.
According to a proper understanding of the terms there is no "Christian" music. Only secular and sacred.
Sacred is purely for the glorification of God and edification of the soul. We call this worship music most of the time...old hymns, praise songs, etc.
Anything other than this is considered "secular".
That's right. Songs about your relationship with Jesus come from a humanistic view of God and are therefore secular.

We, in this modern western church have created this third classification called "Christian" music, but this has much more to do with commerce than faith.
Who is responsible for seeing which groups/songs/projects become labeled "Christian" and whether or not they're doing a good job is something I'm sure allot of people could comment on...but my question is pointed at you. All the Neon Cross fans.
What do you think about todays "Christian music"?
We've come a long way since Keith Green.
Do you think todays bands are doing it right?
And what do you consider to be the right way of doing it?
scratch
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James B.

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Sat Jul 07, 2007 10:37 pm

I have no problem with a bunch of believers getting together and making a living to provide for themselves/families. Again accountability comes into effect. I was gonna touch on the "worship" tag but couldn't quite elaborate sufficiently without going down the bunny trail bounce bounce bounce so to speak. Other terms such as "ministry" and "outreach" put another sort of perplexity to the picture.
I believe strongly that ministry can be anything and one type doesn't hold more merit than another. Labeling it "silly" "pointless" or whatever we can imagine only puts us in a place we do not belong... judgement
All forms of music can be a spiritual thing and very powerful for that matter. A label only serves the purpose of giving it a place to be filed away. The gest of what it means to me is this... The Good Shepherd will leave the many to go after the one. So that brings me to this question...
Is there more value to be had in playing in front of thousands at Spirit West Coast or at a local park in front of all the winos and dopefiends ?
I am sure Jesus is at both places in the spiritual sense but if he was walking the earth in physical form, he'd be with the sinners. The other point is that either place is fine as long as folks are walking in thier calling, within God's Will, and being ld by the Holy Spirit
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Jeffdls

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Mon Aug 06, 2007 8:21 am

I think there are definitely still some bands that most people would without a doubt call Christian. Of course, the problem with that, is they write them off as not being all that good, which is a shame.

There are also some bands out there that are kind of like Kansas was back with Livgren. They sound sorta Christian but they don't actually say anything that's truly Christian. U2 was originally like this but they moved fully into the regular scene.
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Tue Aug 07, 2007 2:02 am

U2 like Kansas and Dream Theater have had to deal with the internal politics of what to do when not every member of the band is a Christian.
On one hand they want to proclaim their faith, speaking the truth in love.
On the other hand they need to be sensitive to the other guys in the band. The Christian thing to do is not become over bearing or push your faith on everyone as though you had the backing of every member.
But that's not really what I was talking about.
I was talking about the bands that make no bones about being considered Christian and then do and say things that are contrary to the Word of God.
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donw35
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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:15 am

And then there is the Christian who says "I am going to play in secular bands and let my witness be my testimony" then I have seen all to often when comes next.

If you hang out in bars, all your close friends are non believers and drugs all around, how long will it take to tear you down. Usually this decision is made by a Christian that has little knowledge in the word of God and believes he is going to be "Different"

So it is for a Christian band, even in the Christian music market, as soon as Money shows up, through in a little fame and guess who shows up to the party. Mr. EGO, yep, I am a rock star now, I get my way and I want everything this way and we are to have this and that.

How soon we forget our first calling, to serve and win souls for Christ, not us.

My 2 cents.

BTW
EGO = Edging God Out
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_Wes

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:34 am

donw35 wrote:
And then there is the Christian who says "I am going to play in secular bands and let my witness be my testimony" then I have seen all to often when comes next.

If you hang out in bars, all your close friends are non believers and drugs all around, how long will it take to tear you down. Usually this decision is made by a Christian that has little knowledge in the word of God and believes he is going to be "Different"

So it is for a Christian band, even in the Christian music market, as soon as Money shows up, through in a little fame and guess who shows up to the party. Mr. EGO, yep, I am a rock star now, I get my way and I want everything this way and we are to have this and that.

How soon we forget our first calling, to serve and win souls for Christ, not us.

My 2 cents.

BTW
EGO = Edging God Out

Wow - great post. You nailed a bunch of things all at once.

In StrangeLand, we are trying to keep this a ministry - rather than entertainment or anything else. We are attempting. . . we play 'secular' gigs - bars, clubs, festivals - wherever they'll have us - we play churches & outreach events too. We try to stay grounded in our faith. We remember that this is all for God - and we try to live it - and keep each other accountable.

I think one of the things that most 'bands' don't do - or at least I haven't heard a lot about it -is to get the backing of a church. Staying grounded in the Word and connected to the Body is very important.

I don't know - I think I'm starting to ramble. . . Wink

Maybe it's better that we don't get successful. I'd just as soon keep a good walk and be grounded in my faith anyway.

That matters. This is a temporary home. . .
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:43 pm

No Wes, that's not ramblin', that's a very good point.
Neon Cross has a "home church" that has prayed over us and sent us out.
I think that if you consider your band to truly be a ministry you really ought to have the backing and support of a local church.
And I'm not talking about money. Money will show up from somewhere when you need it, but the type of support I'm talking about is more spiritual than material...IMHO, that's way more important.
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James B.

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:19 am

I am fortunate....

The folks I play with at homeless missions, prisons, and parks/streetcorners in and around No. Calif. are the same folks who worship Christ every week together at Sunday service.

Being under the authority of a church body is vital to any ministry, musical or otherwise. Pray from that body is such a blessing when going into certain places to minister. Nothing blesses me more than to look out and see a "Baby" christian from the fellowship i attend walking up to a total stranfer and handing them a tract. Especially in downtown S.F that is such a bold thing to do for Christ. Something "older" believers become jaded to.
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:18 pm

Ya know James, jaded is one of the best excuses goin', isn't it?
Problem is, as true believers, we're not supposed to be jaded.
The path to "embitterment", and that is exactly what being jaded is, just simply becomimg bitter over circumstances instead of letting them go or even growing out of the process...begins with personal expectations. Disappointments become their "get out of jail" card and they flash it whenever push comes to shove.
It is a very human traight to play the "experience" card and to try and pass off bitterness and wisdom.
But heavenly wisdom doesn't make us bitter, it makes us better.
I've been around a lot of "older believers" (maybe that's who I am now! Embarassed ) and I tell you, trials are not the reason one is shriveled up while another is juicy. It really is a question of what they did with those trials.
Some of the juiciest people I know are the one who have had it the worse!
They've learned that it is God and God alone that truly matters. They have given up on this world and an expectation of personal gain and they have learned the secret to everlasting joy.
Meanwhile, in churches throughout the US and probably the world, there are those who have excuse after excuse about why it is a waiste of their time to make any attempt to reach the lost. They'll even build "theologies" around it.
But if you can stomache the bellyaching long enough to discern what they're really saying you will find that it all comes down to unfulfilled expectations.
Either they blame God for not doing something for them, or they didn't see enough people respond to their half-hearted attempts to share the gospel.
I think we recognize the times when we weren't ready to share even though the Spirit was prompting us to and we all know the types of lame excuses we came up with.
The answer is to cultivate a grateful heart and to be ready in or out of season!
Wink
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misterjim05



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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:23 pm

The way I saw things in the early to mid 80's in christian metal was that a band HAD to be a ministry. You had to be accountable to a church and you had to boldly be a missionary to your audience. If not you got passed on, especially by some of the more notible labels at the time no matter how good your band was. It simply wasnt enough for a group of christian guys writing good songs and saying "hey we're christians". It was expected of you to preach. Case in point Soldier. In my opinion they were some really good christian musicians that wanted to let the tunes do the talking for whatever reasons(U2 POD). I think they were geared more for good entertainment purposes and less on being "missionaries". This is what lead singer Jimmy Arceneaux said in an interview years after the bands demise:
"The religious tag followed the band, but Arceneaux said that members did not wear their Christian beliefs on their sleeves.
That, he said, caused friction with some people in the Christian music world who believed that the band should proudly wave the flag of Jesus Christ for all the fans to see. But, as Arceneaux--who also was working as an ordained pastor at a Hayward church at the time--puts it, they were Christians in a band, not a Christian band. "

Theres so much that could be said about this topic, but I thought I'd throw my two cents to the wind, and by the way I'm no authoritarian on the matter. Just a simple cat that loves Christ.
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Torch & Sword



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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Mon May 12, 2008 9:26 am

It is so cool that this is up to talk about. I have said many times to friends that when Christian metal first hit the scene, there was such a purity about it. The message, the heart, enduring the persecution, and a heart for winning the lost at any cost. I believe some are still that way, but I would say there are many that don't have that same level of purity about things anymore. Just an observation on my part over the years.
T&S
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Dave

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:16 pm

I think part of the problem with the "purity" of Christian "extreme" music (i.e. metal, punk, grunge, etc.) was the search for honestly and disclosour.
There is a question of transperency that all believers struggle with that goes back to the integrity of our walks.
It is the testimony of our lives, our true, "honest to God" lives, that reveal the majesty of our Lord. And so...we want to be "real". Not cardboard cut outs of what a Christian ought to look like.
Well, you take that to the extreme and in the eyes of the "artist" there are ugly things that begin to surface.
And here's the bottom line in this issue. Does your "honest to God" life reveal the glory of God or the depravity of your flesh?

When the "artist" becomes lost in "self-expression" in an effort to become "transperant" what they really reveal is just how carnal they are.
This is no mystery. The Bible is quite clear. We never "change". It is Christ living through us that is the change.
We must die to ourselves and allow Christ to live through us.

You see, when we become too involve with ourselves and expressing ourselves, Christ is only revealed in that his loving mercy could cover such a goofball as the person we're promoting.

Does that make sense? Do you see what I'm saying?
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James B.

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PostSubject: Re: Today's Christian music   Fri Sep 19, 2008 11:36 pm

I understand completely Dave... it it easy to get caught up and justify it.


Once I saw a band at a festival who had outsold all the other performers at least 5 to 1 on t-shirt sales and still have the gall to ask for the plate to be passed around to help them "fix" thier tour bus. I seen the faith in action by God providing them resources via merchandise and they failed to see God in that and worked the giving aspect of those in attendance.
When I heard they had used the same ploy both prior and afterwards, it made me very sad. Again when it was discovered who was a major benefactor and supporter of this band, I wasn't surprised and it all made sense. Integrity as a believer staying where it should when the term musician is applied, has pretty much become complacent.
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